Public sentiment is largely negative towards the India-GE Aerospace jet engine deal, with many expressing skepticism about GE's reliability based on past experiences and concerns over India's dependence on foreign technology. While some recognize the potential benefits of the partnership, there is significant frustration regarding delivery timelines and missed opportunities for domestic development.

Indian Government

GE Aerospace

This along with their purcase of 100+ Rafael, seems like India is doing a massive expansion to their airforce

nikkythegreat

Idk man it's the US. They can't even deliver previously ordered engines on time. Many Engine-less Tejas are waiting for it for months now.

Ok-Measurement-5065

ElderflowerEarlGrey

&gt; The quality of turbofan engines being produced in China is “catching up” to those developed by Western manufacturers, but for now remain less capable.

&gt; That is the assessment of a senior executive at of the USA’s top jet engine producers, GE Aerospace.

&gt; Steve Russell is the general manager of GE’s advanced projects unit, known as Edison Works. That division is responsible for developing the company’s next generation propulsion technology, including a large adaptive cycle turbofan that will power sixth-generation fighters and small, low-cost engines to propel cruise missiles and uncrewed aircraft.

&gt; Many of those innovations are being developed with an eye toward maintaining the USA’s military edge over the rising power of China.
Speaking at the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies in Washington, DC on 9 September, Russell said that indigenously produced Chinese engines are closing the performance gap with their American rivals, but still remain inferior.

&gt; “They are catching up and we do know that they’re certainly trying to borrow our technology still, like they have in the past,” Russell says.

&gt; Beijing has spent decades conducting a systematic industrial espionage effort to appropriate technology developed in the West for domestic use. That programme has included mandatory technology transfer agreements for US companies doing business in China and the use of agents inside American firms to steal proprietary data.

&gt; GE itself was a victim of one such effort. In 2022, an ethnic Chinese US citizen was convicted of conspiring to steal trade secrets related to GE turbine technology used in both aviation and ground-based power generation.

&gt; Xiaoqing Zheng was fined and sentenced to two years in US prison, according to the US Department of Justice, which at the time said Zheng, “willingly stole proprietary technology and sent it back to the [People’s Republic of China].”

&gt; Beijing now has a number of indigenous military turbofans in various stages of maturity, including the Shenyang WS-10, which is already in widespread frontline service; the higher thrust Shenyang WS-15, two of which are believed to power China’s Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter; and the WS-20, China’s first domestically produced high-bypass turbofan, which has been installed on the Xian Y-20U tanker.

&gt; Less mature designs include the AVIC Guizhou WS-19 afterburner, believed to be in development for China’s twin-engined AVIC Shenyang J-35 strike fighter, which is seen as an answer to the US-made Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth jet.

&gt; In the interim, the J-35 is powered by the more mature WS-21 – an updated version of an existing Chinese engine developed for the Chengdu/PAC JF-17 fighter.

&gt; The ability to develop and field a range of engine types demonstrates the significant advancement of China’s propulsion industry, Russell says, noting Beijing was previously reliant on importing powerplants from Russia.

&gt; “They’ve got a lot of people and a lot of smart engineers too,” the Edison Works chief says. “They’re working fast, and they have a demand because they’re building many, many jets.”

&gt; A 2024 Pentagon report noted both the rapid growth and modernisation within the Chinese air force, even saying the Beijing is “quickly approaching US standards” in key areas like the domestic production and fielding of uncrewed aircraft.

&gt; Despite those challenges, American engines made by GE Aerospace and its main competitor Pratt &amp; Whitney remain well ahead of their Chinese equivalents, according to Russell.

&gt; “Our reliability tends to be still an order of magnitude better than theirs,” he says.

&gt; As an example, Russell suggests that Chinese engines have a lifespan in the hundreds of hours before needing an overhaul, versus thousands of hours for a US-made powerplant.

&gt; “But they’re getting better and we’re seeing them get better,” he notes. “That’s why it’s important that we take this next generational leap to make sure that we maintain that advantage that we have.”

&gt; Although firm details about the secretive NGAP programme are scant, Russell does offer some hints.

&gt; While earlier generations of engines were focused on speed and manoeuvrability, the head of Edison Works says the latest development efforts have placed a greater emphasis on range and generating more power for the aircraft’s onboard sensors.

&gt; Rather than being purely a stand-in dogfighter like the Lockheed Martin F-22, sixth-generation fighters like the F-47 are envisioned more as advanced hubs for collecting battlefield data and directing groups of uncrewed autonomous support jets to carry out strikes.

&gt; “That drives a big part of the requirement,” Russell notes.

&gt; “They still want that speed and manoeuvrability,” he adds. “But we certainly want range, and they also want the ability to pull additional power off of the engine… because there’s so many sensors and other systems operating on these complex aircraft now.”

moses_the_blue

This guy was talking to the Mitchel Aerospace Institute. I listen to their podcast, and 90% of the content boils down to "gib mo monies to USAF".

Personally I'm reading between the lines. Almost exactly a year ago, a DoD Air Force official gave an interview saying the NGAD project had been delayed because the USAF underestimated US tech advancements, and wasn't sure what exactly they wanted the "Next" part of NGAD to actually be: https://www.airandspaceforces.com/hunter-air-superiority-manned-ngad/

I've been speculating that the incoming Boeing Trump jet is actually the alleged "[Son of Blackbird](https://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-unveils-hypersonic-son-blackbird-contender)" contender from 2018. Just tweaked into a modern fighter. This article suggests that might actually be the case, with the GE rep's comment about speed over power.

throwaway12junk

&gt; While earlier generations of engines were focused on speed and manoeuvrability, the head of Edison Works says the latest development efforts have placed a greater emphasis on range and **generating more power** for the aircraft’s onboard sensors.

Hmm, sounds familiar....

teethgrindingaches

Long term, increasing the defence budget is not a sustainable solution. The US needs to adopt the right industrial policies to increase its commercial/civilian industrial capacity so that military procurement becomes more cost-efficient.

evnaczar

"Hey those guys are catching up, wanna give us a few billion to keep that gap wide?"

ToddtheRugerKid

'China bad, gib moneies' - GE Exec, probably.

mardumancer

Propaganda article. The reliability gap is nowhere 10x. Hundreds of hours basically means the Soviet reliability of the 1980s.

BoraTas1

Missile engines matter just as much. Jets don't exact dogfight anymore.

ConstantStatistician

Do we have any info on variable cycle engine development on US/China/Russian/UK/French?  Any other jet engine manufacturer I missed?

sndream

So the reliability of Chinese engines is improving, but the capability is still lagging.

rodnester

I think they're still maybe a decade away. I don't think we've seen anything indicating that they've got adaptive/mixed cycle jet engines - which might be why J-36 has to use three engines to power onboard electronics/meet performance requirements.

IlIIllIlllIIIllI

The article is based on a a blog post. 

Can we wait for something substantial, news story wise?

armoman92

If Russia is delivering certain parts of the jets, then you'll be sure they'll be sabotaged when the day comes we need them. Just like their missiles in 2020.

T-nash

Should’ve walked away slow enough for them to get a better price.

mrlyhh

Will the Indian airforce train our airforce?

fizziks

Suren Papikyan denied these rumors of us purchasing this.

sleepy-lambs

Most interesting aspect is that the jet has Israeli avionics, which seems to imply they consented to the sale?

Imp3rAtorrr

This is actually fake news.  Refuted by military TG channels and experts

Present-Suggestion86

surenk6

weren't they planning on buying swedish gripens?

Not_As_much94

India buys French Rafale (that could pounded by Pakistan's JF-17s...). 

And now Armenia is buying Indian airplanes when even India buys French airplanes... Does not make sense.

dcm1982

All that shit just to be shot down by some fucking AA gun.

No-Election2604

This is a shit deal we should get European or American jets not russian flying tanks because the russian ones suck and you never know what will break on it next meanwhile if you maintain western machines they will serve a long time

vak7997

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USA companies are off-shoring in India like crazy in last few years. They don't give a shit about Trump, he would be their till 2028 only.

Moreover in capitalist economies certain Billionaires and Companies(ahem ahem Blackrock) have more power at backend then president.

Ok_Review_6504

Imagine if even half of that money was put into Kaveri R&amp;D... India would have it's own jet engines.

[deleted]

jhuk jaatein hain log jhukaane wala chahye .. crap warfare tech deals are called extraordinary 😆😆

Intrivort

I guess everything is for a show, on one side put tariffs on other side sell defense equipment.

Scholastic_nobody

US doesn't want to destroy its relationship as a defence supplier.   
What happens if they refuse the deal? Manufacturers globally would keep them out of their defence plans.

ActivX11

This is for mk1A , wait for mk2 orders also 😂😂

Dense_Profit_2478

That's cause GE is still a private company. To an extend, they will not be under the UW Govt cause capitalism. But that may change soon, cause one of their Senators said that they are exploring the option of buying stakes in US defense companies.

dontstealmydinner

At least use this as a bargaining chip to get some reduction in tariff. Just signing a billion dollar deal with a country that imposed 50% tariff makes little sense.

Lo_Ti_Lurker

vishnu_021

Immediate-Beyond-394

SnooCompliments8409

Acceptable-Car-9732

This is why I respect the Chinese more. They did whatever it took to make their own jet engines and are now planning on exporting their latest jet. While we are still begging for ToT.

Soviet_Bear78

papadragon_1

These initial engines  will be made in usa and production in india will start several years later

Ok_Operation9710

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd signed a $1 billion agreement with General Electric for jet engines to support the Tejas aircraft production.

India-GE Aerospace Jet Engine Deal

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